Triumphrat

sbaker33 · 12-22-2008, 08:31 AM

With the current economic challenges, is Triumph in a position to survive?

This is not a troll and is probably in the wrong thread but does anyone know how they are doing financially and if they can make it through? I have not seen any reports on their financial health but with Honda and others canceling projects, the Honda Hoot, etc. inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks

WaltZ · 12-22-2008, 09:53 AM

Well, Big John withdrew from the marketing expense of Triumph Shows in the USA, Raids and the like last year was it - before all this seems to have hit-the-fan. Triumph was criticized hard for this in mags and by riders on this site as well. Looks like a wise conservative move now...

Honda has stopped making the GoldWing in the U.S. and consolidated its manufacture back into a plant in Japan this year. Toyota the largest car manufacturer in the world just announced its first time ever big losses, due to the U.S. market not buying.

Big John has moved some manufacturing assembly overseas, where the standard of living is not at the level of GB and USA, where $10.00 a day can be a good salary. This could both help those people and the end cost of these luxury motorcycles we are buying. Triumph is not making a product of basic need, and I doubt they are positioned to make and sell Triumph Scooters world wide competitively speaking.

Luxury items are what Triumph is selling. The big Rocket III didn't sell what they hoped it would in the USA. As I understand Triumph is making the new Thunderbird overseas for the USA market, to do well, giving us, others, what we want. I'm not sure, as the average guy, I will be able to afford one, even though I might want one. There are no 500cc bikes or smaller in the Triumph model line, that cost $5K or less. And expensive - how can a 250cc be costing $3500+ !?! Priced a stripped down new 250cc dirt bike lately - are you kidding me ?!?

As to the cost of things and Triumph’s survival - I thought the T100 I decided to buy in 2004 was expensive compared to the Honda builds for the money, but I just didn't like the Honda end presentation quality of the stamped out parts. I got the loan and the Triumph. Things are expensive - it costs what it costs. Toyotas may well be a reliable car compared to Chevys, Fords, and Dodges, but at 17K to 24K for any of those, they are simply just too expensive for what I earn, what I want, and what I can actually afford to buy.

My Triumph dealer said this season, Triumph was the only thing that he was selling well, and the Beamers were just sitting there. He's picking up some Kymco scooters too for 2009...

Will Triumph survive? I think they are positioned, as a luxury item manufacturer, as long as you don’t mind buying a British designed, Asian made, USA motorcycle. Only if they make what I want, and can also afford to buy with disposable income.

But then again, there are a lot of GoldWings, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, Subaru, and others off shore owned manufacturer cars in the USA, that I neither want, nor could justify their quaility, and cost, much like the average Harley or Duc I don't own...

Anchorbend · 12-22-2008, 12:01 PM

Triumph is a privately held company and any sales and financial information is a not for public consumption. The only info made public in the past indcated growing sales. I agree that the Rocket has not sold well but other models seem to have done well prior to the economic downturn. The downside is that Bloor just increased capacity by enlarging facilities in Thailand. This may reduce costs but will sales hold up to offset the expense of new facilities? The introduction of the new Thunderbird, aimed at the U.S. market has been too slow. This bike has been years coming out of the chute and will hit when the economy will be at its worst this summer. Credit is tight and you are looking at a mahcine that will run about $15K. You will be able to pick up a lot of Newer HDs out there for the same money if not new ones. The add ons for the T-Bird will be Triumph supplied and ergo expensive. No aftermarket which could make a tricked out one more expensive than an HD.

I believe it will survive but new models will far and few between and you will see dealerships fail as will other brand dealers. Only the strong will survive. One true indicator is if there are big layoffs at Triumph in England.

Sofiaspin · 12-22-2008, 06:01 PM

A luxury item? Waltz you are not in the same market as I am.
Triumph is positioned as a quality product, well designed, cleverly niched and at a sensible price point.
Luxury?
Nae chance. They are mainstream sensibly priced positioned to steal from Harley, BMW blah blah
And in the States, the deal is far better than the UK so the Triumph is in my view a well priced product.
Luxury?
I used to go to get up half an hour before I went to bed...
Sorry, Monty Python on my brain
Luxury?
And I work for every penny I earn.
If you think it is a luxury product you are in the wrong market.
Sorry again

Skull Crusher · 12-22-2008, 06:19 PM

Sofiaspin, you right! Triumph isn't a luxury item and never has been. The same with many other motorcycles. A luxury is really something extremely high priced that is beyond the affordability of most people. Maybe if your talking about a Ducati 1098R or the MV Agusta but not a Triumph. Triumph has tried to keep their motorcycles affordable for the masses and will continue to do so in the future. I think the previous reminder of their own history will keep them moving in the right direction. I don't believe they are trying to directly compete with anyone. They fill a niche all to their own. They don't tout theirs as the fastest or the most powerful and have purposefully avoided it for good reason. It's not about changing the style, weight, or horsepower every year that brings people to owning a Triumph. I think they will be just fine and their future in the U.S. is golden.

Cheers
Jeff

:

Sofiaspin · 12-22-2008, 06:30 PM

Skull I am glad we share the same value for money approach to life.
Being a good Scotsman I negotiate for every penny and take no financial prisoners. But even with my new Thrux, I rolled over and let the dealer have his way.
But I still have cash for a Triton.......

Breezer · 12-22-2008, 09:13 PM

If you google motorcycles, luxury items, I think you will find that in the U.S., motorcycles of any price range are considered luxury items. Pretty much anything that is not a neccessity falls into that category. According to the goverment i-pods fire places, hot tubs ect. all fall under luxury items. Cars up to a price range of about 30,000 dollars U.S. are considered a neccessity. Much above that and they are considered a luxury. It's still a car but they figure that basic transportation can be gotten for less than the above figure. Give or take a bit. The American Financier magazine MCN and Rider Mag have all listed motorcycles as luxury items. May seem strange to some, but thats the catagory they are classed under regardless of price.

Beemie · 12-22-2008, 11:31 PM

Motorcycle Consumer News just published the year's sales summary compared to last year for many of the major bike manufacturers.

Triumph didn't fare that badly, especially compared to some; Triumph down a little over 5% vs 2007.

By comparison, BMW down 12%, Suzuki down 13 % plus, Harley down almost 17%.
Honda, Buell, Piaggio and Yamaha fared better to almost even to down a bit over 2%.

Victory may be in trouble seeing sales down 72%; a shame because they have so much more design style than HD.

Tbirdnz · 12-23-2008, 02:48 AM

Triumph will survive, had this financial crisis happened a few years ago it whilst it was still developing it could have proved fatal but it is now established and should fair well.

Unless you use a motorcycle for everyday transport as opposed to everyday social riding then it falls under a non-essential item. If we have another round of high oil prices then this could be a boost for motorcycles, although high oil prices is the last thing I want.

There was a lot of criticism of Triumph opening up a factory in Thailand, in hindsight this was a smart move, it will help them keep costs down and help them to survive.

Meanwhile for Triumph enthusiasts and all bike enthusiasts even in hard times you are allowed one luxury !

---------------
Ride on !

Sydtrip · 12-23-2008, 03:22 AM

Unless you use for bike as your only means of essential transport, & I think that covers a lot of riders on this forum, then it is a luxury item. Just about any sports or classic bike is, no matter what the brand. It's something we own because we can, not because we have to and while we might like to say we couldn't live without our Triumphs, we would if we had to.
Although I think I'll be living in the street first.