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Triumph Scrambler Transmission Failure

10K views 29 replies 9 participants last post by  RedSetter 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi all,
I have been a member of TriumphRat in the past when I had a 2004 Speed Triple and 2008 1050 Tiger

Two years ago I traded in privately my 1050 Tiger for a 2013 Triumph Scrambler, which only had 1,500 miles on the clock. Since my ownership the bike's mileage is now at 7,500 miles just returning from a tour of Spain, Morocco and Portugal end of last week - but unfortunately by vehicle recovery

I started my 4 week trip of Spain, Morocco and Portugal with just 5,000 miles on the clock and halfway through my 4 week trip the rear wheel locked up, which I managed to free and remove it out of gear. A week later I started getting a light top end engine noise, which I initially thought was valve chatter and then within the a day difficulty in changing gear. After looking at TriumphRat forum messages I checked both the clutch adjustment and the gear selection linkage which were all fine.

During the last week of my trip the rear wheel seriously locked up with the bike skidding while I was riding it and dangerously nearly caused a collision with another vehicle. Two days before the end of my trip I had to arrange recovery back to the UK and the bike was brought back with me on the same ferry.

The engine will start, but the gearbox is trying to mesh 2 gears at once and even in neutral jangling with a
sound like a box of loose spanners. I have contacted Triumph aftersales and the response was as follows:-

'We are sorry to hear of the issue you have experienced, I would like to assure you that the symptoms you describe are not a know issue with this model or any of the air cooled twins. I can confirm that there has not been any recalls for such issues, and until the engine/gearbox is stripped, the actual cause of the issue you are reporting will not be know.

As you can see from the post that it was posted over 4 years ago, and while the symptoms of both bikes might be similar, the causes might not be related.

This gearbox has been in service for over 15 years with no previous concerns, whatever has happened internally was never predictable, so until the dealer has opened the gearbox, we will not know the cause

As your Scrambler is some 18 months out of warranty, and you are not the original owner, I'm afraid we cannot commit to affording you with any goodwill towards the repair.

If you can confirm which Triumph dealer will be carrying out the repair, we will liaise with them'

I am getting a local and reputable motorcycle mechanic to collect and look at it tomorrow

Any ideas or similar experiences?

Thanks Rob
 

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#3 · (Edited)
I have contacted Triumph aftersales and the response was as follows:-

'We are sorry to hear of the issue you have experienced, I would like to assure you that the symptoms you describe are not a know issue with this model or any of the air cooled twins. I can confirm that there has not been any recalls for such issues, and until the engine/gearbox is stripped, the actual cause of the issue you are reporting will not be know.
Had a similar case recently, turned out a circlip failed in the gearbox:

http://www.triumphrat.net/air-cooled-twins-talk/809177-clutch-lock-up-help.html

A few weeks earlier this one, although we don't know the reason, no bloody feedback...:

http://www.triumphrat.net/air-cooled-twins-talk/793201-triumph-thruxton-rear-wheel-seized.html

On this one the plastic oil pump gears failed and jammed the engine:

http://www.triumphrat.net/twins-technical-talk/596962-2013-scrambler-died-will-not-start.html


Please let us know the reason when you find it, thanks.
 
#4 ·
To properly rebuild a Triumph transmission is not a simple or inexpensive task. I wore out the 5th gear input and output gears at 101K on my 01. This was no fault of Triumph..I am very abusive . With me doing all the labor...this was $1300 in parts to properly rebuild the transmission including ALL the peripheral stuff required. It took 3 weeks just to get the gears. I had to modify an automotive engine stand so I could split the cases without pulling the Jug or head. I don't want to know what the labor would be paying someone else.

There is no issues with Bonneville Transmissions. They are pretty much bullet proof. Hardware failures happen it sucks. From my experience most motorcycle transmission failures are caused over tighten chains that stress the bearings...improper shifting...bent shifter forks from hammering down shifts or oil starvation. I am not suggesting that you are at fault. The previous owner or wrench may have been the problem.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for the replies Duckman and Forchetto

I have read many of posts your Forchetto and hadn't realized you were in Spain. The serious problems started on my long ride from Santiago de Compostela to Potes in the Picos.

I shall read through what you have sent and forward it onto my mechanic

Regards

Rob
 
#7 ·
You do not lie. A few years ago my wife and I did a large figure of 8 through Northern Spain and Southern France in my Cobra. We stayed in Fuente De and toured via Potes to Rioja and Santo Domingo de la Calzada thence via Pamplona into the Dordogne. Frankly, we should have stayed in Spain; not least because coffee denominated in the same currency was half the price. There is a message in there somewhere!
 
#9 ·
Thanks Forchetto, I was reading your posts on here when I was in Aliezo trying to arrange breakdown recovery to Bilbao. Wish I had known you were only down the road. Thoroughly enjoyed my tour of Spain, especially the North. My bike was collected by my mechanic last night and should get diagnosis during the week and will post the outcome
regards Rob
 
#10 ·
Hi Callumity & Haymike
yes was really surprised how cheap and good the coffee was - in Seville I paid €3.95 for cafe con leche, a crossant and a glass of freshly pressed seville orange juice ....

Been looking on Ebay at used motors and a decent one ranges between £1500 to £2000 and Scrambler engines are rare. I am hopeful I will get it fixed for less than £1500 and having it virtually from new, I haven't thrashed it

Regards
Rob
 
#11 ·
Hi Forchetto
Just back from my mechanic who has my engine stripped down. He did say the engine is nicely built, but looks like a circlip midway along shaft was distorted during assembly and moved on shaft during my Spain road trip. Ebay gearbox assembly on order for £130 with only 500 miles on engine...

Please let me know your thoughts about contacting Triumph on this issue?

Best Regards

Rob
 

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#13 ·
Now I'm worried...my 2013 (2012 manufacture date) T100 might have the same $0.01 circlip made out of China's worst pre-rusted pot metal....
 
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#15 ·
Hi Guys,
I have been waiting on a reply from Triumph for a couple of weeks on the transmission failure that happened on my 2013 Scrambler. I managed to get the UK customer services number and spoke with the Aftersales contact I had been emailing. I then followed up the conversation by email as follows: -

Following our conversation this afternoon, I would like to confirm the following points I raised with you: -

- My Triumph Scrambler was first registered in December 2013

- I purchased my bike as second owner on 21st May 2015 with only 1,200 miles on odometer

- I started my tour of Spain and Portugal on 29th April this year with 5,000 miles on odometer

- My bikes gearbox transmission failed at only 7,500 miles

- My bike gearbox locked and wheel locked up causing me to skid out of control in a urban area at approximately 40mph

- My mechanic had identified a distorted circlip which had moved out of it's location groove, and this would appear to have happened through stretching the circlip during assembly. This is an inherent build quality issue

- I have since found 4 instances on Triumphnet of the same transmission problem

As I also mentioned, I am a proud and loyal Hinckley Triumph owner and in the past 12 years I have owned a Thunderbird Sport, 2 Speed Triples, a Tiger 1050 and my current 900 Scrambler - which I am happy with and intend keeping.

I am aware that replacement cost of the gearbox assembly and components parts, excluding labour, could be in the region of £2,000-£3,000. While this amount of spend would be hard to financially justify, my intention is to get my bike back on the road for around £1,500

I do appreciate you raising this matter with your head of After Sales & Warranty and shall look forward to hearing back from you

Many Thanks & Kind Regards

Rob Simmons

I have this evening received the following response: -

Dear Mr Simmons.
Sorry for the delay getting back to you, I've been out of the office.

I have discussed you case with my colleague, unfortunately we will not be able to assist you with the repair of your bike. I appreciate that you consider this to be a manufacturing or material defect, but the warranty for such eventuality has expired, and as the bike is not with a Triumph dealer, we are not able to help with any repair, sorry.
 
#16 ·
Sorry to hear that. Can't see much path forward, unless you go the safety route...talk to legal advice on how this failure could have led to serious injury/death...not fit for purpose etc etc.
 
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#17 ·
Weird, not even the offer of a little help, like parts only, a little goodwill gesture.

Is there not something about "merchantable quality" in the Uk's Sale of goods Act 1979?, about the goods being "fit for purpose"? surely a catastrophic failure of a gearbox at 7500 miles is not "fit for purpose"?

Perhaps a word with a solicitor that can produce a suitable letter reminding them of this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sale_of_Goods_Act_1979
 
#18 ·
I don't think the Sale of Goods act is of any help here.

My understanding (I'm no lawyer by the way!) is that in UK law your contract is with the person/organisation that sold the item to you in the first place and not the manufacturer. The bike was purchased by the OP May 2015 so that is nearly 2 years after that purchase when this failure happened, so unless some extended warranty was purchased at the same time I can't see any come back whatsoever.

Sorry it's not better news....... :frown2:
 
#19 ·
Its sucks that the clip failed. Triumph has absolutely no liability or obligation to fix it. The bike is long out of warranty. The owner is not the original purchaser of the bike. The milage is irrelevant. This is the risk you take buying used. The fitness for application argument is painfully weak. If this was the case...every Bonneville with broken spokes and rusty wheels would be sporting new ones.
 
#20 ·
So by that reasoning, if numerous cases of the broken circlip become known, and there are injuries/deaths due to lockups while riding, there would be no recourse for anyone, despite the manufacturer being aware and doing nothing?

There is a reason governments have recall laws...to protect the public from harm. Many companies now recognize their responsibilities and some even do pro-active recalls before legal mandate. Some just do a calculation to figure out liability costs if they doing nothing....Ford's exploding Pinto was such a situation.
 
#21 ·
Thanks for your positive response Tornado99,
I won't even waste my breath on negative responses, it's bad enough dealing with Triumph's lack of interest

That said, I am hopeful my mechanic will have rebuilt my bike by the end of today, my estimation of works was pretty accurate at under £1,500 (including the low mileage gearbox). All circlips, gaskets, seals and selector forks have been replaced, and they've even completed a valve shim check too.

I cannot speak high enough of Mark Davall Motorcycles in Harlow

I feel a lot happier now, but I am sure you will see more postings on this forum of the same transmission problem

NB: Given the difficulty I had in trying to find a contact telephone number for Triumph's Aftersales, I thought I would share it with the forum +44 (0)1455 251700
 
#22 ·
My suggestion would be a polite letter to Triumph

'expressing disappointment that they felt it necessary to fall back on strict legal liability for a genuinely low mileage machine that given heavier use would have failed within the warranty period.
Having sought advice and opinion on this forum and received nearly 1,000 views you equally hoped you might have been able to report some ex gratia contribution if not full warranty. Or has this been a more common occurrence than Triumph are willing to admit and they therefore do not wish to open a floodgate?'

Yours etc.,
 
#23 ·
Thanks Callumity
I am waiting for a reply from the Head of Aftersales and will use your comments in my response.

Spoke to my mechanic yesterday and in his words the gearbox is now running like clockwork. Looking forward to getting it back as I really love this bike and wouldn't part with it.

This experience hasn't deterred me from buying Triumph, as I am looking to buy a Sprint ST for next year's touring holiday. But I am disappointed with Triumphs response to this serious build quality fault and their short term view of customer aftercare. As others have pointed out the consequences of this are potentially lethal

Best Regards Rob
 
#24 ·
Very pleased to have my much loved 2013 Triumph Scrambler back on the road, after the catastrophic gearbox failure in Spain. While other mechanics were suggesting replacing the entire engine or main dealer prices making the repair uneconomically viable. My local motorcycle mechanic has totally rebuilt the gearbox, using a low mileage Thruxton gearbox, for under £1,500, and it now runs and selects gears like a Swiss watch. A potentially fatal transmission failure that shredded gear teeth off the Japanese manufactured and assembled gearbox ... caused by one circlip manufactured in the UK
 

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#26 ·
Manufactures are rarely if ever blackmailed by forum posts...I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for response. I understand Triumph's position...regardless of milage this is a second hand bike out of warranty...without a class action suit...they aren't going to do a thing. Even then...they have an army of engineers, lawyers and insurance companies to prove its your fault. I am in no way implying that you are at fault. IF you care about the country of origin...it would be on the label of the baggy the new part came from...though it is not a guarantee. This clip is likely used in EVERY Triumph transmission ever made....for all we know its in your junkyard transmission....

Your best revenge is simply never buy a Triumph again. The first sale is easy...the second is the hard part....
 
#29 ·
I think you got ****ed here. Do you want to know how I ended up finding this post? I fear my bikes getting to the point of locking up again. The clutch now sounds like a bag of spanners and the gear that got mashed up and replaced is starting to slip again.

I think triumph have had multiple reports of this and have never joined the dots together. My bike is months out of warranty now and i'm hoping if it's linked in any way to the transmission is to blame again I would expect them to pony up for the trouble.

I've had this bike from new and it's not the first 'factory' **** up it's had. I love this bike so much but the voice in the back of my head screaming it's going to break again is starting to put me off riding it at all.

The first repair was ~£800 in parts etc but they covered the cost of the parts and I basically just paid for the case splitting. Let's hope they take pity on my god damn bank balance again.
 
#30 ·
Hi Dr Peirson
Thanks for your post and sorry to hear about your transmission problems. It sounds like from your description like the noise I was getting before my gearbox locked up. Yes, the response from Triumph has been extremely poor considering the brand loyalty we all have to these bikes.

Although my bike cost around £1,500 for the gearbox rebuild, including the low mileage Thruxton gearbox. It was meticulously rebuilt by Davalls's of Harlow, who replaced all the circlips and selectors, in fact it seems to run a lot better now and I am really happy to hold onto this bike.

Even from this site alone there's enough posts on this problem and Triumph need to put their hand up to recognise there is build fault

Regards

Rob
 

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