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Need advice: Sleepers install, AI removal, O2 removal, retune

5K views 35 replies 10 participants last post by  JCinPA 
#1 · (Edited)
Gentlemen,

I do solemnly swear that I have searched for, AND READ, all the threads I could find about this subject. :nerd: My problem is that my knowledge level is such that I cannot follow some of the conversation, which is waaaaaay above my level of understanding. I do have the tools and probably the dexterity to make the changes, except for the tune, myself. Before I do anything, however, I'd like some more experienced members to review what I am buying and planning to do to bolster my confidence. Thanks, in advance!

First, GOALS

I'm an old duffer, new rider, and I am not after maximum horsepower or making the bike more sporty, per se. I am after the sound of the BC Sleeper Silencer, as well as keeping the peashooter look. It is for that reason I am not going with a K&N air filter. I figure that with the other mods the difference made by just changing to a K&N filter will be minimal (or at least I don't care about it) but it is a fact the K&N will pass more particles than the paper filter (which may not be of any practical importance, I understand that). Although I want to stick with the original air filter, I am open to getting the Triumph Twin Power Breathe airbox intake cover, but I've listed it as optional. I understand that it may make the bike noisier. I'd love some feedback on that.

What I am after, is letting the bike run cooler and getting rid of the snatchy throttle response when beginning to move, which has already given me some problems. So goals are, smoother airflow retaining OEM air filter, cooler-running engine, smoother throttle response, and a nice throaty sound.

------------------------

Here is my parts list I've assembled:

British Customs new Sleeper Silencers (not yet available):
http://www.british-customs.com/british-customs-triumph-bonneville-t100-sleeper-silencers.html


Air Injection Removal Kit:
http://www.british-customs.com/triumph-motorcycle-air-injection-removal-kit.html


O2 sensor hole plugs:
http://www.british-customs.com/triumph-motorcycle-o2-sensor-block-off-screw.html


O2 Eliminator plug for the wiring receptacle (requires 2):
http://www.british-customs.com/triumph-dynojet-o2-sensor-eliminator-plug.html


OPTIONAL - Triumph Twin Power Breathe airbox intake cover:
http://www.triumphtwinpower.com/ttp-breathe-airbox-intake-cover.php#reviews


Second, because I have no idea what tuning is all about, I will have my dealer do a dyno tune for $95 when all is changed out. When you deduct the cost of the tuning stuff and the brain damage this will cause me, I'd rather just give it over to them than screw with something I don't understand. From Motorcycle Center, Villa Park, IL website ...

From Dealer Website said:
Baseline Dynamometer Run/ 3 Pulls: $95.00

Checks air/fuel ratio, torque and horsepower for your current engine configuration. In addition, recommendations for engine performance enhancements and a complete printout showing the results of your Dyno run are provided.

Aside from letting me know I'm on the right/wrong path with regard to parts, here are some specific questions I have.


1. Will doing the sleeper install, O2 sensor removal, and AI removal affect the running of the bike enough that I should not ride it the 20 miles to the dealer for the tune? If so, I can just have the dealer do all the mods and tune it right there. Right here you can see how green I am about this stuff. I can afford to have the dealer do the mods, too, this is not about saving money (especially with the tools I'm buying!), this is about trying to do them myself as a new hobby and for personal satisfaction of DIY work. If a total green hand shouldn't be attempting these, I'll defer to the dealer, and stick to oil changes/brakes for a while yet.

2. I have some of this anti-seize stick in my garage, but I keep hearing about something called "copper slip" (sp?) for the plugs. Do I need to get a special product for this or is this tube of stuff OK? Again, I'm reasonably handy with tools, but totally inexperienced with this stuff. Anyone know what to torque those plugs to?




I'm planning on following these video resources:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2jaTKzK2IA


and


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qORe9_dUl8w



Any and all advice welcome! Even if it's "Take it to the dealer, mate, sounds like you might be getting in over your head!" :laugh2:

Thanks to you all, in advance.
 
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#2 ·
Your dealer will not be carrying out a dyno tune for $95. What he will do is carry out three wide open throttle pulls to give you a dyno graph of what your bike is doing at WOT. He will not tune your bike at all for this money and your bike will run as good or bad as it did when you arrived for the dyno tune.

All he will be able to tell you is if your engine is running rich or lean at WOT which is where you are for maybe 2-3% of your riding time.

Just letting you know so your not disappointed with what you get.
 
#3 ·
Thanks, Pie Man, that is helpful, as you can see, I am so new to this. They do have a $395 option called a Rexxer Tune, with Rexxer qualified technicians. I have no idea what that means.

I'd try doing something with TuneECU if I understood it, but it's all Greek to me. Would you recommend doing these mods myself, riding the 20 miles and having the more expensive tune done? I'm still not sure what the consequences of riding 20 miles with it untuned are, although I suspect that is probably OK.

Do you know if that anti-seize is good for that application? I'm wondering if the copper slip product is needed because of the temperature in the pipes?? No clue.

I want to get to where a lot of members here got, and I think I can handle the wrenching. I just have very little confidence because of lack of experience.

Cheers,

John
 
#4 ·
For the retune, most folks swear by Pieman's tunes on TTP. I can tell that you I don't think it's the best idea in the world to be fiddling with fuel maps in your ECU yourself if you don't know what you're doing, as you can do some serious damage to your bike.

I'm sure other folks with more knowledge on the matter could chime in, but it sounds to me like using the Arrow 2-2 map from TuneEcu is a good bet for getting your bike in better shape than the stock map, until you can get one of the TTP tunes created specifically for the mods you've done.

Or, just go straight for the TTP tune.
 
#5 ·
Thanks, Ryan. I am very leery of doing any tuning on my own, as I am completely green. Maybe I can find a Triumph guy in the Chicago area who could help with that.

Would it be a bad idea to do the mods and ride it to the dealer for their dyno tuning? Again, economy is nice, but not required in my case. Since this is likely my 'lifetime bike', I don't mind having it done up right once at the dealer. In fact if the TTP Tunes are approximations, and the Dyno services are more precise and done on actual bike measurements, I would actually prefer to spend the money on the dealer tune than use TTP. May sound blasphemous around the forum, but I'm not opposed to doing a $395 exercise to get the bike correctly programmed once after these mods. I am unlikely to do any other mods that would affect performance.
 
#6 ·
Usually a full on dyno tune tends to be more expensive than that, considering the prevailing wages for techs and equipment. I know that around here, there are quite a few mobile dyno techs who will come to your house with a dyno in the trailer and do it all for you there, so you don't have to ride it or truck it anywhere. I don't think it'd be good to ride it more than a mile or two with these mods, as your bike would be running pretty lean if intake and exhaust are increased. But I tend to err on the side of caution.

If you'd prefer to not go the TTP route, I'd check around for a mobile dyno in your area if it were me, and be scrutinous about reviews and first hand experience.
 
#7 ·
Ryan, thanks for that answer, specifically about not riding it after the mods. That was something I did not know. The $395 Dyno Tune was competitive with what they charge at a Harley dealer about a mile away, maybe they compete. I did see this review of a Dyno Tune at my very dealer! Cool.

I can't see using a roving dyno guy I don't know when I'm near the oldest Triumph dealer in the Chicago area with a good rep. I think I'm leaning toward letting them do the mods all at once and then getting a Dyno tune from them. I'm just too green. I can get my DIY itch scratched with some regular maintenance work, and playing with the Honda CBR250 I just got, as well.

Do you have an opinion on that optional piece I listed? The "Trimph Twin Power Breathe" air cover? Again, I'm not after the most power I can get, I'm after getting better throttle response at low rpm and a nicer sound. Will that piece make any meaningful difference if I stick with the paper air filter, and how noisy is it? Anyone know?

Thanks again! This is all good, even if it pushes me toward dealer work. Like I said it will be a lifetime bike for me, and the costs do not dissuade me. I'd rather have it done right once by an experienced dealer, and they have a good reputation.
 
#9 ·
OK, will do. Thanks again for chiming in, much appreciated! :)
 
#10 ·
Sent you a private message, did what you are looking to do myself with the support of this site and youtube and happy to help out. In the Irving Park neighborhood in Chicago. I know it is intimidating but what you are looking to have done can be knocked out in half a day at most or several parts of days if you juggle a family/job/life....just an offer or if you are interested in seeing the mods on Thruxton, just let me know.
 
#11 ·
Thanks!

Yes, I'm not worried about the mods themselves, but the advice about not driving it afterwards and my ignorance of tuning. Will check your PM.

I appreciate the offer of help!
 
#12 ·
How cool!

I have a local member willing to provide "adult supervision" for me! :D

I'm going to get the TTP Breathe adapter, based on reviews I've seen. Still sticking with the paper filter. Now if BC will just get the new sleepers in stock! :(
 
#13 · (Edited)
I'm in a similar position to you, and just as raw and intimidated about all this stuff. But I've begun to dive in. My feedback:

1. If you haven't paid for the Sleepers, yet, the Norman Hyde Classics are virtually the same and were readily in stock at BC. Just received mine last week. The difference is chrome-plated (NH) vs stainless (BC). Stainless may be slightly more durable. Might be.

2. I've already done the SAI removal and plugs. Used the same Delboy video. Went quite well, but did take me 4-5 hours :) Careful with the tank partial removal. There was one clip I wasn't ready for.

3. This weekend I'm going all in: the pipe replacement, o2 removal, even the air box baffle removal (pray for me).

4. I've bought the TTP Tune 3 and hope I've downloaded it properly. Those who've done it swear by its ease, and TTP instructions seem pretty good. That'll be the last thing I do. I know I'll be on here for help, too.

5. The Breathe makes very little sound difference, IMO. But I'm told a BIG performance difference (when combined with the rest). I'm not into squeezing every last HP out of her, but why not let her breathe?

5. If I can try this, anybody can. And the DIY factor has already brought the two of us (Bonnie and me) closer together :)

Good luck.
 
#14 ·
5. If I can try this, anybody can. And the DIY factor has already brought the two of us (Bonnie and me) closer together :)

Good luck.
That's what I'm thinking! Thanks for the post! I'm going to wait for the SS silencers, I think. They're close, so why not?

Let us know how your project progresses, please!
 
#15 ·
Agree, may as well wait. They seem really nice. As for your non-stick stuff, I haven't used it (my TTP parts came with the copper stuff). But it looks like it'd do the trick. Instructions on the stick should tell you the proper application, no?

If you do the Breathe, make sure you find the very hard to find rubber gasket on your original snorkel and transfer it, very carefully, to the Breathe cover. I was careful but still tore mine in two pieces.

I'd be happy to compare notes/ provide other tips as seen/experienced from my very green perspective.
 
#17 ·
Waiting on the new silencers because they quit making the last ones. Should be soon I hope.
 
#18 ·
Dominator Touring

I removed the OEM mufflers, installed the bellmounth (Norman Hyde), junked the AI set up ... < 2 hours. Easy. Been riding and love it. Waiting to do the O2 removal, but she rides good. Also I have not gone the TTP tune route yet. Like I said she runs real good. I reckon the tune would improve it. I still have my paper filter, K&N comaing ... but will leave the baffle in for torque.

Do you need the O2 sensor elimination plugs? Do you get a light otherwise?
 
#19 ·
I've been told the elimination plugs are a good idea, preventing some kind of error message--and I've been told they are not necessary because you can "turn them off" in the tune. I sure don't know, but would also like some clarity here. Maybe both those positions are true. You can use the plug or turn them off in the tune.
 
#20 ·
You can turn them off in the tune and clear error messages, but it will foul up your o2 sensors for good by leaving them in the headers. Granted, you might not care about that, but I'd just as soon remove them if they're going to be nothing more than something to get fried by being left there.
 
#21 ·
Oh, no, they are definitely coming out.
 
#22 ·
TuneECU is actually VERY easy to use, and there's plenty of good advice on this Forum. All you need is the right cable (ebay), and a tune, and I cannot say enough good things about TTP tunes. Installing one really is just a matter of plugging in and following instructions.
 
#23 ·
I believe it is easy to use. I like having adult supervision because I do not understand what it's doing really. Gives me confidence. I would not use it unaided.
 
#24 ·
Update on my exhaust: the Norman Hyde Classics didn't fit! (see related thread). I'm sending them back and waiting for the new Sleepers too. Sounds like they'll make yours before mine: apparently there was a change in the exhaust line around 2011, and they're making the Sleepers to fit the newest models first.
 
#25 ·
I'm waiting on the BC Sleepers, and they have the ones for the older models now, exactly the reverse. :(
 
#26 ·
Nope, I'm told out of stock. No new stock coming until the newer, improved version comes. Just spoke on the phone with them yesterday.
 
#27 ·
Oh, I misunderstood what you meant. They had the ones for the older versions a while ago, I did not know they are out of stock. So we're both in the same boat, eh? Did they give you any idea when they expect new stock? I was told April in an Email, obviously past that.
 
#28 ·
For the "older" models (like my 2010) he estimated about six weeks. I didn't ask about the pipes for your model, but it sounded like it would be very soon. And IF I remember correctly, the improvement they're making is a better match in shape and appearance to the originals. Until now the Sleepers were not only shorter than stock, but not shaped as nicely. Always looked a bit out of whack, to me, with the fat part not a consistent diameter like the stock mufflers.
 
#29 · (Edited)
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Found new information that made this irrelevant.
 
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