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42K views 286 replies 57 participants last post by  kunkledude  
#1 · (Edited)
We are losing two dealerships out in the Bay area. Stated reason..... too many unrealistic demands put onto the dealership from Triumph. Triumph doing the same thing HD did some years back, demanding a certain amount of square foot showroom floor space. Then some other added demands on stock on the shelves, stuff like that. All these things cost money and further investments by the dealerships. Also some warranty changes.

I'll be watching the dealership over in Roseville and Elk Grove to see if something happens with those guys. Both of those shops give very little showroom space to Triumph, since they carry other brands.

So Triumph raising the price on the bikes by a healthy margin, then placing demands on the dealerships.

Looks to me like they are taking a page from HD.

I'm sure we will see the Boutique thing going on real fast with the dealers left.

One thing that caused this, probably that they want the dealers to have on hand and display, all of the add on parts for the bikes. That's just a guess on my part.

Check out this letter from CALMOTO

http://www.calmoto.com/default.asp?page=Farewell-Triumph
 
#2 ·
Triumph is demanding showroom remodeling and extended business hours. My local dealer is a single-line dealer and they remodeled their showroom in the last couple of years at the bequest of Triumph. And now Triumph wants him to remodel again. The business manager told me they would like to add another brand to the business but are reluctant to commit due to concerns with all of Triumph's demands.

He also told me Triumph wants a six-day business week with extended business hours one day a week.
 
#111 ·
Chazzmichaels said:
Triumph is demanding showroom remodeling and extended business hours. My local dealer is a single-line dealer and they remodeled their showroom in the last couple of years at the bequest of Triumph. And now Triumph wants him to remodel again.

Spoke to Wendy at RidgeMotorsports in Batesburg, SC today and asked her if Triumph was pulling this BS with them. She said they were getting pressure from the company to remodel but were given until 2018 to complete. It's possible that things may change before then, she said. The only street bike line they sell is Triumph, but them do sell more ATVs and dirt bikes than street bikes. She told me Indian is pulling the same crap and a dealer in Alabama which sold Triumphs and Indians had the Indian franchise pulled. Sad. :Not again
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#3 ·
Sad.I would have though more is better. Especially as Triumph should be getting the brand back into the public eye and mind IMO.But what would I know? I still reckon they should be making a 1,200cc America/Speedmaster Cruiser:surprise:
 
#213 ·
My guess is that a 1200 would be to close to the newest Thunderbird. But there are a few 2015 and 2016 900's around the New England area! All still new, was told by Green River some still in the crates. We will picking up the wifes new ( 0 mile) 2015 America LT before the 18th from a closed ( they dropped Triumph ) Triumph dealer in Boston Area they are still selling " Duc's" though. Jerry
 
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#6 · (Edited)
This is also a model that BMW tried several years ago. Many shops closed up after being in business for decades and well respected. BMW still expects separate showroom floor space in a multi dealership, but forcing smaller shops to upgrade I believe has stopped. Triumph probably believes that those dealerships that remain will be better to serve the customers than those who just add Triumph to their menus. Can't wait for each state to have only one dealership. I personally would only use a dealership for warranty work, but there are plenty of owners who depend on dealers for service and want to be able to go into a Triumph dealership that doesn't take 4 hrs to get to. Doesn't seem like a model to increase customer base to me. Since they abandoned the idea of selling 250,000 small cc bikes in Asia, maybe they have a notion of a limit to production to keep profits high and the business model afloat.
 
#12 ·
Felony said:
This is also a model that BMW tried several years ago. Many shops closed up after being in business for decades and well respected. BMW still expects separate showroom floor space in a multi dealership, but forcing smaller shops to upgrade I believe has stopped. Triumph probably believes that those dealerships that remain will be better to serve the customers than those who just add Triumph to their menus. Can't wait for each state to have only one dealership. I personally would only use a dealership for warranty work, but there are plenty of owners who depend on dealers for service and want to be able to go into a Triumph dealership that doesn't take 4 hrs to get to. Doesn't seem like a model to increase customer base to me. Since they abandoned the idea of selling 250,000 small cc bikes in Asia, maybe they have a notion of a limit to production to keep profits high and the business model afloat.
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This is funny you say this, I live in the state with the most MC's and the city with the majority of them and you cannot find a BMW dealership to save your life. 5 HD dealerships in a 25 mile radius, 3 Trumpet/Ducati/Polaris etc... in the same radius. You see BMW's and there was one dealership in Hollywood that sold them and ( as Honda as main vendor though) and Yammi's but they lost their lease on the building and right to sell anything else But BMW's. I stopped in one day right before they where closing to move and the place was a ghost town and he was hoping to get his Honda and Yammi franchises back. I think they are stuck in a industrial park way out in the San Fernando valley now...
 
#10 ·
sonicboom said:
We are losing two dealerships out in the Bay area.
Looks to me like they are taking a page from HD.



http://www.calmoto.com/default.asp?page=Farewell-Triumph
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I have been saying this for quite a while (and got lots of angry feedback for it from many a fan boi around here for it). I said it the other day when I walked into the dealership when I said "Wow looks like Sportsters in here now with so many models based on the same bike with different names" (a T-100 and a T-120?) and especially that "Catalog" they put out with the release of the water cooled with every little nick nack and bolt on you get ever think of to buy with Logos on them. The absence from the MC shows is still a wonder to me though as there are still few dealerships and so many models now that the majority of people are never going to see these bikes except in magazines.

What places are shutting down up there? I dealt with Munroe for some service I needed right quick while there and they where great and a friend runs the Marin/Hatter shops. (They actually worked on my HD when the idiots at Dudley Perkins couldn't be bothered)
 
#15 ·
Calmoto two locations are closing. It's listed in that letter.

No loss at all, they never stock any parts you would need. If you buy a new bike from a dealer, who would care having to drive another 30 miles. What good is a closer dealership when they stock nothing, and the workmanship performed by someone not even properly trained. Read something the other day that someone had spark plugs changed and they only changed one plug, the tech thought the bike a one cylinder or forgot about the one on the other side...this on a Honda...go figure, you can't even make this stuff up. How many times have we read a story about a valve adjustment at one of these dealerships going totally wrong. Stripping out hardware, putting the cam anchors back into the wrong positions, or even getting the adjustments out of whack when they were actually closer within tolerance if left alone.

Triumph finely got fed up, and rightfully so, they are cleaning this thing up in many ways.

If they take the time and money to invest they will be a better dealership. Vetter to have one good one in a hundred mile radius then 4 bad ones.

Harley discovered this many years ago. They sell a ton of add on parts because they make sure the dealers have that stuff on hand. They send out reps to check the inventories at the dealerships. You don't keep the stock up, you get shut down. PERIOD.
 
#11 ·
It's really hard to know what works and doesn't work in the dealership business.

In the U.S. motorcycle market there is nothing like HD out there. They built a strong brand, and in doing so can make demands of their dealers that others cannot make. Has BMW done that? I sure don't think so, or certainly not on the same scale. Has Triumph done that? Not even close. So making demands of their dealers for square footage, sales per square foot, units sold, parts inventory, clothing and accessories inventory, etc seems really premature......It is tough to imagine that they can make those demands work for most dealers in most markets.

Being an economist I will of course say.......On the other hand

Triumph needs to weed out their dealers and demand that they conform to the premium brand image that Triumph is clearly trying to build. I have purchased 2 new Triumphs in the last 2 years from 2 different dealers. I enjoyed the experience with both of them. They both did a nice job. However, both of them carry several lines and do not give near enough space or attention to Triumph. Neither of the dealerships are attractive. So if I am the Triumph rep who has received word from on high that we want our dealers focused on our product and we want to have a premium image.....I am going to push those dealers to either focus more on Triumph, or give up the franchise.

Final thought......What happens with the global economy will be a significant factor in whether or not Triumph is able to pull this off. We'll see.
 
#17 ·
MushyPeas said:
It's really hard to know what works and doesn't work in the dealership business.

In the U.S. motorcycle market there is nothing like HD out there. They built a strong brand, and in doing so can make demands of their dealers that others cannot make. Has BMW done that? I sure don't think so, or certainly not on the same scale. Has Triumph done that? Not even close. So making demands of their dealers for square footage, sales per square foot, units sold, parts inventory, clothing and accessories inventory, etc seems really premature......It is tough to imagine that they can make those demands work for most dealers in most markets.
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You must have been sleeping in the 90s. BMW tried this on a grand scale, and it failed and lots of dealers lost their BMW franchise.

Being an economist I will of course say.......On the other hand

Triumph needs to weed out their dealers and demand that they conform to the premium brand image that Triumph is clearly trying to build. I have purchased 2 new Triumphs in the last 2 years from 2 different dealers. I enjoyed the experience with both of them. They both did a nice job. However, both of them carry several lines and do not give near enough space or attention to Triumph. Neither of the dealerships are attractive. So if I am the Triumph rep who has received word from on high that we want our dealers focused on our product and we want to have a premium image.....I am going to push those dealers to either focus more on Triumph, or give up the franchise.
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Being an economist does not make you smart in marketing. :D This is what BMW tried, it failed. Most dealers can not survive selling just one brand, unless that brand also sells watercraft and/or ATVs.
 
#13 ·
I went into the Roseville dealership a few months to accompany a friend when buying his new Ducati Multi and that place has a whole separate section for triumph (larger than the Ducati section) I don't see why triumph would request even more space. I do frequent Ace in Concord and Marin speed shop as my local dealers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#14 ·
My Closests dealership did the opposite, they where a Ducati Dealer prior (and MV and Guzzi and Aprillia) to getting Trumpets a few years back. The revamped recently and the main show room is All Ducati and Ducati only, bikes gear etc.. with a small section near the door, cut off from main showroom with Aprilia and MV the other showroom up the street is all the rest of the bikes now mainly Guzzi and Trumpets etc... Both Guzzi and Trumpet just have way too many models now that look the same.
 
#22 ·
If Hermy's doesn't have it on hand, which they mostly do, they can put it in the stock order which then takes ~ a week as long as it's in the country. That usually works for me but they CAN order VOR if required which is ~ 2 days. Extra cost of course unless it's warranty.
 
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#24 ·
This is something that dealerships do not seem to realize (or do and just do not care) but if I call and you say you dont have it (which sucks as I am usually only calling if I am in a jam and need that part otherwise I am ordering it), I am NOT going to order it through you and then wait for the call and go pick it up. I am ordering it from Hermy's or Amazon etc.. and getting it cheaper and delivered right to the house in the same amount of time (or sooner)...
 
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#23 ·
I agree. With good dealerships online selling parts, I don't need a dealership at all for parts. Hermy's BMW and Triumph is a prime example. I'm close to PA so shipping even for parts that need to be ordered doesn't take too long. I'd rather see dealerships stock a multitude of gear brands, instead of just a couple. I cringe trying to buy gloves online guessing at the size or how they will feel. Same goes for boots. I think it's beyond ironic that most of HD's accessory/clothing/apparel line comes from that great big country in the east. So much for American branding and lifestyle. Maybe Trump will get on HD's arse and become patriotic. (I'm being comedic and not political, no need to flame).
 
#26 ·
Felony said:
I'd rather see dealerships stock a multitude of gear brands, instead of just a couple. I cringe trying to buy gloves online guessing at the size or how they will feel. Same goes for boots. I think it's beyond ironic that most of HD's accessory/clothing/apparel line comes from that great big country in the east. So much for American branding and lifestyle. Maybe Trump will get on HD's arse and become patriotic. (I'm being comedic and not political, no need to flame).
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That's cash which is tied up and making no $$$ vs bikes which have low interest flooring or free flooring for a few months. If the stuff is going to turn, then fine, drop $100K there, but most bike dealers aren't wealthy.

No clue about HD but I've got two Triumph jackets which are fairly old, 10 - 15 years, and while eastern, aren't Chinese and are very well-made and practical. Singapore and Indonesia IIRC. Hard to bring back mid-range gear manufacture to First World countries except for specialty and expensive stuff. Even my fave BMW classic, high-tech jacket was made in Hungary.

Agree that it's a PITA NOT to be able to try stuff on. Suggest you try the guys in TX at Motorcycle Gear (old New Enough) since they carry everything. In one case they tried on a bunch of gloves in M to find the largest pair in that style. Worked out well.
 
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#30 ·
The only stand alone BMW dealership in my neck of the woods is Max BMW. He has 4 or 5 locations in CT and NY. Most are associated with other Euro bands, mostly Triumph or Ducati. BMW certainly ruined many dealerships as stated above. It affected the families that owned the franchises, not BMW as far as I can see. It's like a large army on the move.
 
#31 ·
If you did not see my last post, please check it. I apparently failed to communicate properly.

I have no question or doubt that BMW hammered their dealers. I knew the local dealer. She sold a few years ago and she was burned out. It was brutal.

With regards to BMW or Triumph deciding to shift strategy, sometimes business is really brutal. About 20 years ago GM made the tough decision to start squeezing out their very small, rural dealers. It made sense to have those dealers back in the 30's, 40's, etc. But in the 90's, it stopped making any sense at all. The world changed. Supporting a small town dealer that sold 10 vehicles a year was just not viable, especially when they had so many of those small dealers all over the U.S. So GM informed the dealers that they would be phased out. Brutal. There were some 2nd and 3rd generation family dealers who were hurt. But I can certainly understand the decision.

So my point about BMW and/or Triumph, they too have to make corporate decisions that sometimes negatively impact their dealers and customers. Those are tough decisions, and we don't know all of the facts, or long-term strategies behind them. Again, it definitely can be brutal. Sometimes business is brutal. As an owner I can honestly tell you that we love our employees and we do all we can for them, including providing some pretty incredible perks. But we also have to make some tough decisions that at times make it hard on our employees.

I could go on and on. That's enough.....or probably too much.
 
#35 · (Edited)
And by the way.....If most will tell you that owning is better than leasing, then why is the equipment leasing business a multi-billion dollar industry? Why are virtually all commercial aircraft leased? Why are virtually all golf carts leased? and many, many other types of commercial equipment.

Even your decision to own a home vs rent an apartment is not as simplistic as you probably think it is. I know some phenomenally wealthy individuals who lease for one simple reason......Taxes. If you're in an AMT position on your taxes, lease expense is not subject to AMT, as is depreciation.

Nothing is as simple as you want to make it.
 
#42 ·
Luxlamf said:
SInce everyone is up in arms and pissy about Trumpets attempt to become a giant juggernaught with water cooled motors and HD type Business practices... I will throw you this bone because it's funny and the Trumpet Bois can say "$uck Yeah thats true!!!"

http://adage.com/article/special-re...tter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=national&utm_campaign=Nashville_20170127_0900
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I'm assuming there's some weird stuff in the water in Hollywood...:cool:

No matter how many times you beat this drum, it won't change reality. Triumph is a niche-marketer and has no interest in sales increases beyond a safe and stable +10% per year. And no, John Bloor has no interest in selling you any shares in his business. :p

PS, TNA fired the Harley fraud after two years when Hinckley discovered he'd been cooking the sales figures.

Ostensibly this thread is about the global re-branding and dealer realignment. In some places it may fit and render better customer service, in other places, not so much. There is nothing like enough staff to monitor it, so one size is trying to fit all. Sometimes this happens when you hire PwC and marketing consultants. :eek: With luck, the product line will carry it.

As for that Benz ad, the dealer council will be ticked at the waste of their MMP contribution for such a poorly targeted campaign costing maybe $5M. :eek: Big ego boost for some exec at MBUSA and politically useful in Atlanta but a waste on a halo sub-brand when the dealers would prefer to be attracting Millennials to C-Class...
 
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#44 ·
"John Bloor is not a motorcycle guy, he needed a write-off......"

I don't believe that. It doesn't line up with the stories I've read about the purchase, i.e.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fsb/fsb_archive/2002/04/01/320994/

I have never met a legitimate businessman who intentionally took a loss. There are a multitude of tax deductions and tax credits available. There's no reason to intentionally post an intentional cash loss when there are so many ways to defer taxes.

I do not know British tax laws but I would bet their code also includes such provisions.
 
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#48 ·
I live in Charleston, SC. HARDLY a backwater. No dealer for about a 2 hour ride, pick a direction.

We had a dealer. He got fed up with "ridiculous Triumph demands" in terms of floor space and floor plans. So he threw out the brand and picked up Indian.

So another local tried to pick up Triumph. After about 18 months of negotiations he opened up - a trike dealership. He also continues to carry Royal Enfield.

So who's going to buy a new Triumph in South Carolina's 2nd largest city and metro area with no dealer and no dealer support? No-body. And it's been this way for 4 years now, so don't talk to me about growing the brand.

What may make a lot of sense in the CEO and the CPA's office doesn't really translate well on the ground.
 
#50 · (Edited)
This is exactly it, an odd way for a corp to act who is on the verge of releasing almost a dozen new models (all based on the same platform yes) but yet doesn't have a way for people to see them or better yet a dealership close enough for them to feel comfortable buy it. The Brand Boys will always argue in favor of the Corp, it's what they do, they love the Brand and that comes 1st so they will never care, they will blame you, the guy next door (HD mostly with Trumpet heads) before anyone else. What seems to be lost on them is their incessant complaining about other co's, Like HD. You see a lot of HD's in North America because you can find HD's In North America in just about every town and city in the country. I guy with 1 (or 3) of the exact same bikes or only buys 1 brand will always argue, he's the same guy who puts money down on a bike he never saw etc... Corp love these people, they Pay to advertise for them, they will argue online in defense for them and they will seek out magazine articles that favor them (or more importantly talk badly about the competetors product). These Corp do not like me, I dont care what their name is etc... I want a bike I find attractive and is reliable. I will not buy their Gear and doo dads etc... And I will complain when their products suck etc.. So far I have had that with the brands I have chosen. This Scrambler has been fine for the most part and for what I paid for it. It come with a lot of very cheaply made parts and is way over weight for what it is. But it cost less than $8000 so I am fine with that. It's nowhere near the best bike ever made etc...

I always wonder if they treat buying an Automobile or Truck the same way? Do they buy one without a test drive or comparing brands etc? Do they buy the ones that have no dealers nearby? Do they Pre Order and add T-Shirts and gloves and hats with the name of the car co on them when they buy them?
 
#56 ·
My dealer was originally a BMW/Triumph dealer....they dabbled awhile with Ural but they really ARE a niche product. The shop was pretty much half Beemers and half Trumpets...and used bikes sort of wherever they would fit.....then they picked up a Ducati franchise, and they had to build on a little boutique sized room to display those. It really was a necessity, they could not show all the other bikes that they needed to show and add Ducati without having more floorspace. The corner they are on is not going to take much more adding on, and I expect that unless they really see a boost in business by expanding yet more, they will have to find a bigger building. That's something you don't do unless your marketing plan is really cranking out dollars. As it is they keep about 25 Triumphs, 20 BMW's and perhaps 10 Ducati's. Surprisingly or not, used bikes don't sit long.
 
#61 ·
Exclusive? Dual? Mega-dealer? Unless the staff has years of experience, it will take them quite a while to get up to speed, even if the ARE enthusiasts, a rarer thing these days. You might be better off sticking with Tampa which appears to have a clue.

FWIW, I ride 2 1/2 hours to get my Ducati serviced because I want only "The Matster" touching my valves. Moreover, they are exclusive and stock most everything. Fabulous pub for lunch on the way home too! :)

Might consider R3Tjohn's dealer if I really needed anything serious for my Triumph. Have a pal who rides down there to get his Tiger serviced and he's fussy. They are just off the Blue Ridge Parkway which would be an entertaining ride but just out of range for my old bod without an overnight nearby. :cool:
 
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#59 ·
Everything that I've read about Bloor from British mags is that he rides motorcycles. Before purchasing the old Triumph factory and rights. Who in their right mind would invest $35M of their own money to start up a motorcycle company? It's like investing in a restaurant where the failure rate is 95%. Maybe it's just another business avenue for him. You know from third hand sources what his intentions are? Nonsense. And, if he does decide to sell the business, so what. Where does it say that you have to own till you die? Why are you so down on John Bloor? If it wasn't for him, there would be no resurrected Triumph. He could have just owned the rights and let it lay. Maybe he has grown into a genuine enthusiast. Or maybe, he takes pride in resurrecting an iconic British company. As far as what they are doing with dealerships, it's their game to lose if it's the wrong strategy.
 
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#63 ·
If you are going to quote from Wikipedia, it states he rarely rides motorcycles. Yes, as a child he had issues with a hip due to dislocation and infections, so he rarely rode bikes as a teenager. This is an informative article going back to 2008. And, time marches on and he is now more than 25yrs older since starting up the company.

http://triumphtalkcom.blogspot.com/2008/03/john-bloor-man-of-vision.html
 
R
#65 ·
my local triumph-bmw dealer Hermy's is s-l-o-w-l-y building another section on their operation. tried to buy a small g-650GS from them but they were 1G MORE out the door than another multi bike dealer in state college, also moving to a bigger setup as theres no room to expand where they are now. hermy's poor deal prolly reflecting need for higher profits to finance the addition. triumph is doing good now with bikes cheaply assembled away from british $$$ but things can change. hopefully they do not shoot their selves in the foot!!
 
#69 ·
What happen to the subject about closing dealers?

This thing turn into a personal attack on my credibility, good looks, and natural ability to charm snakes.

You guys about as bad as MSNBC/CNN.

I'm just going to do the Trump thing and fight you all back. I'm coming out after all of you mud slingers.

I'm unleashing the dogs.
 
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