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Air injection removal question

7K views 28 replies 14 participants last post by  mick 85 
#1 ·
I took my new Bonneville T100 in for its break in servicing at the triumph dealership. I mentioned that I had ordered new exhausts and an air injection removal kit. The service guy got really defensive about the ark and told me I shouldn't do it to my bike. When I questioned him about it, he couldn't give me any specific reasons why not other then people having bad experiences after doing it (he wouldn't go into detail). Anyone have any input or bad experiences? I've read a few other threads, but it seemed like most problems were related to other issues.
 
#2 ·
did mine the other week (as part of a TTP tune) and no problems so far

for me the the only points are:

1, exhaust is now turning gold (was already nicely blue - and yes I like that)

2, now doesn't pop and cackle on the overrun (again something I liked and miss)

neither of these are enough for me to want to put it back on as I do quite like being able to get at my spark plugs unhindered :)
 
#3 ·
I also have an air injection removal kit which has been sitting around for quite a while now doing nothing. On my (2015) bike I just haven't had any running issues so can't bring myself to fit it........

My understanding is that Triumph made some mods on late bikes (2014 on I believe) that resolved some issues people were having, anyway mine's OK so I'm leaving it for now....
 
#9 ·
Mine pops and is snatchy at low RPMS after putting the dominator sports and arrow 2-2 tune. It was always a little snatchy so nothing out of the ordinary but at times it's extra. Thinking the air injection removal kit sitting in my stash of things might do well right about now!
 
#12 ·
The AI removal was the first mod I did and I can say I noticed a difference but, it was a modest difference at best. Changing exhaust and having it mapped is a much more noticeable difference and removing the AI compliments it all. You won't have any issues, go ahead and do it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#13 ·
AI removal was also the first thing I did on my 14 Thruxton. I have had no issues with it whatsoever. I then slowly proceeded to change the mufflers out with Carpys cafe racer monarchs, and had a factory remap done, wasnt happy with the factory remap so bit the bullet and did the whole air box baffle removal, bellmouth intake with DNA filter, and the O2 sensor removals and followed all of that up with a custom tune from TTP. The bike has no snatchiness at low throttle, the mid range is smooth and pulls like a freight train, no popping on decel, and no more blueing or golding of my pipes. Had it like this for over a year with no issues. I say go for it, if you are only removing the AI, it will not need remapped, and it will stop the popping and blueing of the pipes.
 
#14 ·
My AI removal was strongly suggested by the Triumph dealer that has serviced and repaired (crashed it a couple of years ago) it since new. I had just bought the bike and the repair guy thought the AI was a lame EU speck based unnecessary thing...Not sure what the removal accomplished (it did yield a bag of greasy parts) but it was an inexpensive operation, and utterly made sense at the time. I wonder if anybody has ever put an AI system back on after removal…maybe I should put mine on Ebay (heh heh).
 
#15 · (Edited)
This thread is super relevant to me right now. I read pretty much every thread I could find about AI removal and re-mapping the ECU, and it was heard to kind of mush all the different facts and opinions together in my head.

I have a 2013 T100. The only "real" modification was replacing the stock pipes with Norman Hyde Togas. The bike seemed to run fine with no further changes, except for the pretty crazy amount of popping. I didn't mind it too much, but I suspected that neither my neighbors nor the local constabulary would appreciate it in the long term, so I figured I should put a stop to that.

After a bit of Googling, it seemed that AI removal was the most consistently reliable way to stop the popping. Since NH says a remap isn't strictly required, I went with AI removal first because I wasn't ready to be tinkering with fuel mapping.

AI removal did in fact completely stop the popping, and the first time I rode the bike, it seemed to run fine, albeit a bit hot while cruising on the highway (~250*F according to my oil plug temp gauge) for ~45 min at 70-80mph on a hot day (~85+*F, IIRC). The temp dropped down to something more normal once I got off the highway (even though I was being a hooligan on back roads).

BUT... When I rode it the next day, it stalled on startup when I tried to use the fast idle switch, then restarted fine and idled low/rough until it warmed up a bit. I bumped up the idle a little with the idle adjustment knob, which helped. Now, it starts "strong" and reliably without using the fast idle switch. No idea why the AI affected this.

Since the idle was wonky (albeit less so once I adjusted the knob) and there was also a slight surge at low speed+low throttle openings (which I understood to be a symptom of running lean), I decided to experiment with some new maps.

[EDIT: Removed some stuff here that was totally not correct]

Where I'm at now, is that I've remapped the ECU with TuneECU. I considered going with one of the TTP tunes, but there aren't any that match my situation. This is my first experience with doing any ECU mapping, so hopefully I'm interpreting the fuel maps correctly.

Based on comments in other threads, I skipped the TORS map for now. I tried the Arrow 2:2 map (20505) first, because it looked "safer" (i.e. more rich) than the stock map which was looked to be on the lean side at normal cruising speed/load. It ran fine, but it seemed a little sluggish, so I switched to the Arrow 2:1 map (20504) which appears marginally more lean until WOT, where it gets more rich. Now it seems to be running better, and doesn't feel as sluggish, but that's highly subjective. Since it's not doing anything screwy (yet), I figured I'd leave it as-is and see how the spark plugs look after awhile. It does still seem to run a bit hot, but my test rides were on particularly hot (90+*F) and humid days, so I'd like to see how it is on a more reasonable day where the pavement isn't radiating so much heat.

In retrospect, if I could do it over again, I'd probably leave the AI system alone (or start with the marble trick rather than immediately pulling the whole thing out) and try the re-mapping first.

A few questions:
1) Does anyone know how long it would take to start seeing the "effects" of the changes I've made reflected on the spark plugs?

2) Does anyone know/recall whether the idle fluctuates at all on a bone stock bike? I can't remember for sure, but I'm inclined to say it did (just +/- 20ish RPM, not bouncing all over the place).

3) Aside from ripping the AI system out before just testing it, have I done anything particularly stupid?

Apologies for the wordy post. I tried to be detailed for someone stumbling across the thread in the future. :smile2:
 
#17 ·
My working theory is/was:
(DISCLAIMER: SOME OR ALL OF THIS COULD BE COMPLETELY INCORRECT)
A) Given that the O2 sensors only affect running in closed loop, and;
B) That the AI system injects fresh air AFTER combustion, and;
C) That logically the stock programming would take into account that the O2 sensors would see "extra" air (assumption on my part), which doesn't actually represent what's happening in the combustion chamber...
Based on my research (mostly in this forum), the SAI only works when the bike is open loop (idle). Its open loop above 4K as well, but I don't know if the SAI works up there. That would the the O2 sensor input out of the equation.
 
#16 ·
When you remove/block the AI, you need to up the idle a bit. Shoot for 1,050 - 1,100 RPM when hot for starters.

Maybe that's your problem..., but the manual says to use the "choke" for cold starts anyway.
 
#23 ·
I ended up keeping the ai all season last year. More out of not having the right wrench to take it out than anything. Going to do my oil change and put in a k&n air filter tomorrow and got itchy to work on my bike today(waiting for my oil filter to come from amazon tomorrow) so I went ahead and did the ai delete. Not having the popping is really nice. Idle was definitely low after the ai delete though, but ill address that with the idle knob tomorrow. Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

Next projects:
Got a thruxton short rear fender and need to repaint it.
Probably paint the turn signals or do something about the obnoxious chrome on them
Paint the headers black eventually and maybe do the o2 delete while the headers are off

Ready for season 2 of the Bonnie!
 
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