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Matris F15K Fork Cartridges

19K views 82 replies 14 participants last post by  Gummi 
#1 ·
I just installed the "Matris F15K Fork Cartridge Kit" for my Bonneville.

Mike @ BellaCorse shipped ............ It arrived this morning, I installed it this afternoon. Easy.

What it replaced, was my previously installed "Hagon Progressive Springs w/ Preload Adjusters".

Best way to describe the difference .............. WOW!

I really enjoyed the upgrade to the Hagon's w/ Adjusters. Performance was SIGNIFICANTLY better than the stock setup ......... but they were very lame by comparison to the F15K Kit!

Pull the forks,
gut the forks,
flush/clean tubes & parts,
install new seals/sliders
install cartridges/springs,
New 5w oil/bleed
Reverse procedure to install

Set Sag
Set Compression and Rebound to "Matris Initial Suggested Specific Settings" (Comp. @ 15 clicks / Rebound @ 15 clicks).

Went for a ride. :grin2:
This is where the "WOW" came in!

Great road feel.
Firm, but forgiving over "bumps" (both sharp and gradient ).

Initial suggested Com. & Rebound settings feel pretty good.
I will play around with it a bit though ......... just to get a feel.

Initial test ride was cut short ............ picked up a nail in the rear tire. Went flat at a gas pump.
Thankfully they had air!
Filled it up ........... and then some! ............. rushed the 2 miles home.
JUST made it ......... all but flat pulling it in the garage.

Will deal with that tomorrow, and enjoy it some more!:wink2:

VERY nice Kit !!
 
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#2 ·
Question - (1) what rate spring did you get?

(2) any trouble removing the bolt on the bottom? Others have had to use a broomstick or similar to "jam" the forks to prevent the internals from spinning when removing that bolt.
 
#5 · (Edited)
8.5K Springs ............. which were thought t be a little soft for my weight.
Coming in at 211# ......... I was thinking of the 9.5KSprings.
Went with the 8.5K Springs (just because) .......... perfect!
9.5K would have been too stiff and would not have gotten the appropriate sag. With these 8.5 springs my sag is 35mm at 6 turns of the Preload Adj.

As for the "bottom bolt" ................ as RR said, not to mention many others .... if you search fork mods, an impact wrench makes quick work of the bolts. As is often the case with "things that can rotate". The "power @ speed" makes the difference. Those that needed to use a broom handle were most likely using an hand ratchet. Mind you ............ that too will get the job done, it just takes longer and more effort.

I had these Cartridges installed in about 2 hours, roughly.
I was also keeping the dog entertained at the same time ..... with a tennis ball. :grin2:

Easy job really, with a little existing knowledge of the forks.

I am uploading pics to PhotoBucket (as we speak), in a public folder.
I will post a link (if I can figure it out) to it.
Someone may wish to see a "photo walk-through".

It really is an easy upgrade.:wink2:

Best upgrade money spent yet. (followed by the CC's).
 
#4 ·
Paul,

On fork disassembly, I hit the damper tube bolts with an impact air wrench to crack them free while still under tension from the internal springs. Eazy-peezy to break-down the forks from there.

/M
 
#8 ·
Bscott2231 - the tennis ball is known as "crack" to certain dogs, haha. If that's a pic of him he's a good looking dog.

Not to be too nosy, and I'm not looking for a date, but is your weight 211 all suited up or, uh, you know, weight right out of the shower? Because I'm 185 but 202 or so suited up. Just trying to get a feel for the right spring for me.
 
#9 ·
Ha!
ANYTHING that you are willing to Toss, or Throw is her "Crack".
A Frisbee is her indulgence of choice.

And yes ..... that is "Her" to the left. "Maddi".

My wife is Blonde .......... my "best friend", a Brunette. :wink2:


Not to be too nosy, and I'm not looking for a date, but is your weight 211 all suited up or, uh, you know, weight right out of the shower? Because I'm 185 but 202 or so suited up. Just trying to get a feel for the right spring for me.
Glad you made that clear! LOL

211# is all dressed up for my wife ! (out of shower) :wink2:

In "Street Cloths" (everyday wear) ...... I come in at 223# (ish).

In appropriate "Cycle Gear", including Armor ........ well, I don't really know. Never weighed myself in gear. "It" would vary anyway, as what I wear varies. If the "destination" is a social gathering ......... it will be "street cloths" anyway.

There is some "forgiveness" when determining "spring load". Accuracy "to-the-once" not critical.
"End use" a determining factor as well.

Another thing to consider .......... rider position.
I run "flat Bars", on 15mm higher risers.
I am 5' 10", and hug the tank.
These give a "forward" riding position. A little more weight over the front end.

Springs are cheap, and easy to change. Do the best you can, and if you need to go up or down, a "size" ............ se la vi.

Mike (BellaCorse) is great to work with. And he is here in the states, not Italy.
While installing, I had a question ........... I picked up the "Installation Instructions" looking for a Phone Number.
Of course, it was for Matris in Italy ........... hmmm.

Thankfully I answered my own question. :grin2:
 
#10 ·
Thanks for the response, appreciated.

Sidebar:
I have 2 black cats, my first time with cats, they are "maintenance free" so to speak. I've been thinking about getting a rescue dog from the shelter after the holidays. But I'm spoiled by the cats, other than feeding and the daily litter boxes they require little else. I always had dogs previously, Shepards, but that photo of Maddi has me thinking again. We'll see…
 
#13 ·
Rode about 250 miles over the weekend.
I sought out some of the "rougher", winding, secondary hill roads.

Forks performed beautifully!
Very controlled, sure footed.
Had the pleasure to experience virtually every type of bump.
Sharp, successive small bumps, large dips and risers ............ everything in between.

Front wheel seemed "glued" to the road. Action and reaction was impressive.
Being able to speed up, or slow down (either Comp. or R) really allows you to "dial in". Of course starting with the appropriate rated spring is important.

After the "vigorous" riding this weekend ............ the springs have "settled".
I need to readjust the preload. Will do at some point this week. Probably good from there, maybe a little more tweeking in another few hundred miles ............ will have to see.

I really like these fork cartridges.
I have not tried the others, for comparison ............. but with C&R adjustability, and the initial performance of these Matris .............. I see no reason to at this point. As long as longevity/dependability (long term) prove reliable ..... all is good.

Oh .......... Mike, I do not see the quandary in your situation ............ you simply need to upgrade TWO bikes!>:):wink2:
 
#14 ·
Oh .......... Mike, I do not see the quandary in your situation ............ you simply need to upgrade TWO bikes!
As I predicted, I already sold the my special ordered F15K kit with 9.5K springs reserved for me... but no big deal as Indian Summer has come & gone and all the babies are in hibernation again. I'll get to it by May.<g>

/M
 
#18 ·
#23 ·
Here is a link to a Triumph Exploded View Diagram, and Parts list.
Use it to reference the "Illustration Numbers" (in parentheses) associated with the parts I make reference to below.
If it does not "link" ........... simply copy and paste it in your browser address bar.


http://www.triumphestore.com/a/Triu...45/Front-Forks--Lower-Yoke/100065055-0-2.html


The "Fork Tube Inner" (9) travels up & down in the "Fork Tube Outer" (12), on "Guide Bushings" (18).

There are 2 of these "Bushings" used in each "Leg Assembly" of the fork.
ONE, on the bottom of the "Inner Tube" (9), and ONE at the top of the "Outer Tube" (12).

These "Guide Bushings" (18) allow travel, up and down, with minimal friction and clearance.

Hope this helps.:grin2:
 
#25 ·
Oh ............ using the same link above ...................

The "Seals" are .................

Dust Seal (14) ............... Keeps "road dirt" away from the "Oil Seal". Which would "scratch" the rubber sealing lip, causing it to leak.

Oil Seal (16) ................ It's design is to keep the Fork Oil "IN" the tubes, and Water "OUT" of the tubes.


As to ............

I would think a complete kit would be complete
"Complete" is a general term used by ............. well, EVERYBODY .................. to denote "all things required" to accomplish a particular task.

The Matris F15 Kit can be considered "complete" because "Seals and Guide Bushings" will, and can, be considered "electives".
You CAN reuse the existing parts. And in probably 99% of the cases where they are reused, there will be no negative affect.
The "Bushings" will be reusable unless they allow lateral movement of the Upper Tubes. Most bushings will be good for MANY THOUSANDS of miles. Exceeding 50K miles in most cases. Maintenance and riding conditions will play a role.
BUT ............. as far as seals go, "experience" comes into play. REPLACE a seal with a new one when it needs to be removed.
Why?
Because of seal construction.
A seemingly "Rubber" seal has a THIN "Steel" core, giving it it's structure and shape. When "coaxed" from it's nesting place, these seals will often "deform" ............ and hold that new shape. Even if it isn't discernable to the human eye. It does not take much.
This affects the sealing "lip" contact area. In a negative way usually ......... causing oil to leak FROM the tube, and allowing water INTO the tube (think Rain, washing, and condensation).
The "rubber" itself, that makes up the visible exterior of the seal, dry's out eventually.
Combined with a Distortion, you have a leaking seal.

And thus .................. is it simple and inexpensive insurance to just replace the seals.

Not EVERYTHING will be thought of by a manufacturer when putting a "complete kit" together.
And we as humans will often misuse something in the English language. Like "complete".

Lets not even get into "Slang" ......... or "Ebonics".:wink2:

Hope this helps.
If not ........... you know where to reach me.:grin2:
 
#27 ·
Sounds good...I'm still using the progressive springs along with some pre-load adjusters I picked up on E bay.


On that flat tire. I'm in the process of sealing my rims and going tubeless. I've got an extra front rim sealed and waiting to be mounted and then I'll do the rear rim once this present tire wears out. Lot easier to plug a flat with a plug. What gave me this idea was a flat with my Guzzi with sealed rims and it was so much easier to just stop at a gas station and buy a plug kit. I was back on the road in 10 minutes and that included drinking a coke, eating a Reese's cup and checking out some fine hot chic wearing very tight yoga pants, camel toe to the max. That peanut butter cup washed down easy with the drool.
 
#30 ·
IF you seal those rims using a two step method with the silicon, one coat over another after the first coat dries, you won't have any trouble snugging up those spokes. What will happen that nipple will be inside a double sealed cocoon. It can spin inside the first layer and it won't loose sealing at all. Works great. I actually triple seal these things using rim tape over the top of those two layers with Gorilla clear repair tape, you can pick a roll up over at Wal Mart. I used (Seal All) (wal mart) first coat and then a second coat of basic Goop (wal mart). If the side walls leak all you do is sand it down and give it a coat of sandable primer, that will seal the walls. I found out about the primer trick from a guy over at the Goodyear tire store, they use that trick all the time to seal wheel side walls. Actually believe it or not, some guys on dirt bikes are sealing their wheels just using that clear gorilla tape alone.
 
#31 ·
Hmmmmmmm

Read a few posts on it, but not thoroughly...... as I was not considering it at the time.

Good description. Thanx.

I am about to replace my rims with a set of Sun Rims, as I have an extra set of wheels to play with.
I will try this route. I cant think of a good reason not to. It is easily reversible, if necessary.

Urethane Sealant may even be superior to Silicone. Superior Adhesion.
I may devise a method to prevent adhesion to the nipple itself. A simple "parchment paper disc", or similar, should suffice. Truly forming a "pocket" (so as to prevent "disturbing the seal" in the need of adjustment). Rather than relying on the Nipple needing to "break free", versus the "lump" (so-to-speak).

Could be I am overthinking it. Spokes should go a few years without needing touched. At that point a "re-do" is no big deal.

Again, thanx!:grin2:

Merry Christmas!

Supposed to be in the 60's on Christmas .............. I may have to hang some Mistle Toe off the handlebars!>:)
 
#34 ·
I noticed some of this sealing rim tape on line and they use a round disc of some sort to keep the sealing tape from sticking to that nipple to allow it (nipple) to free spin for spoke adjustments and flex.


That is why my double method works so well. It creates the same environment for that nipple to move without disturbing the sealing job.


It can all be reversed or just stick a tube back in there if you like. I often wonder why the wheel makers just don't seal these things from the get go. Probably more to do with manufacturing process and time restraints. It is time intensive when you seal these things. One day for each coat and then the tape. The wheel makers probably don't want to deal with the labor cost. Or it leaves the door open for litigation.
 
#35 ·
Or it leaves the door open for litigation.
This has my vote!
Not to forget, nobody likes "complaints" ..... just a PIA. lol

As for the time consuming part .................
No big deal.
I have two sets. An extra couple of days to do it right, no worries.

I already have the Tubeless Radials waiting in line.

Again, thanx for bringing it up.
I was not thinking along the lines of "sealing the rims", I am just so used to the tubes. And have never had any problems. But then, I am quick to change out tires. I do not run them to "smooth". Probably helped in the "no flats yet" category.
 
#36 ·
Anything that adds weight to a wheel is -IMHO- a bad thing. I'm not a fan of sealing a spoked wheel.

Maybe I've been excessively lucky over my 45+ years of riding, but I've never had a broken spoke or flat tire. Yeah-yeah-yeah, I know it happens, so no need to regale me with horror stories. Just sharing my experience FWIW.

/M
 
#37 · (Edited)
The tubes add more weight then the sealing job. Hard to believe but some guy put his wheels on a scale before and after. Almost hard to believe until I went over to the work bench and picked up a tube still in the box, heavier then you think.


P.S. Don't forget to fill the bathtub up with water to test the side walls. Remember the primer trick if you get a leak with the side walls.
 
#38 ·
First of all, very interested in your report on the Matris Cartridge which is consistent with what Chuck said, and he knows how to make these bikes better. A Matris cartridge is on my wish list.

Secondly, I just ordered the Outex tubeless conversion kit and am going that route this winter. I'm just not brave enough to trust Seal All and Goop by itself, although I may squeeze some of that stuff in along with the Outex tape for insurance.

Thanks for the tip on primer for the sidewalls, Sonic. I was worried about leaks there. Any particular brand or type of primer I should be looking for?
 
#41 ·
Secondly, I just ordered the Outex tubeless conversion kit and am going that route this winter. I'm just not brave enough to trust Seal All and Goop by itself, although I may squeeze some of that stuff in along with the Outex tape for insurance.
Would not trust "Goop or Seal ALL" myself.

That Outex product looks interesting.
Am curious how that does with "time/use".
?????
 
#39 · (Edited)
Opinion heard, and appreciated Mike.
If I screw up too badly ............ I'll just order up a set of Wheels from ya! >:)

I've not made up my mind completely ........... but I think I will give it a whirl. More advantages than disadvantages.
Not life threatening, just potential for annoyance.
Not to mention ........... reversible.

I am using Straight Pull rear hub.
Heavier Spokes in both F&R.

That nail I had in the tire last week went down FAST! WAYYYYYY faster than any Tubeless radial ever has with a nail in it. I just made it home, only 2 miles. First mile was QUICK ........... second mile I went slower.:wink2:

Appears Sonic is correct on weight. Tubes are "heavier'.

Risk ............... "slow" leak, possible. If not done correctly. Swift, massive air loss damn near impossible. More likely with a damaged tube.

I had my first "flat" just last week, on a street bike. Dirt bikes don't count!
Never broke a spoke, again ... street bike. Again, dirt doesn't count.

While "Silicone Sealants" have excellent "adhesive" properties .......... I will use a Urethane Sealant. Of the "Windshield Sealant" variety. Even better adhesion than Silicone. Adheres to glass, and provides structural integrity to autos doing so. Should adhere very well to a new anodized rim, cleaned appropriately.

Centrifugal forces will be pulling at the sealant.
I will use a 2 layer sealant process, as Sonic describes, but also add a solid rubber "rim band" (cut from a smaller sized tube). Adhered in place by installing it while the second layer of urethane is still "wet". Maybe even using a 3rd, ultra thin layer for the "band" adhesion only.
The "band" should help resist centrifugal forces and promote maintained adhesion of the urethane to the rim.
A "dot" of Parchment, roughly the size of the nipple head, will prevent "complete" adhesion to the nipple itself. Making spoke adjustments "theoretically" possible. Although spoke tightening on a street bike is infrequent. May go years.

If a single sealing holds up for 2 -3 years, I will consider it a "win".

A simple "plug repair" kit will get me home from ANYWHERE ......... Where I can mount a new tire. With only 2 tires ........ I do not like "repaired" tires.

Anyway .............. I've been reading the "discussions" through the years. Re-reading now, with interest. A bunch of successes ........ no major problems. No lives lost.:wink2:

Still not completely convinced ........... but close.
 
#40 ·
Put about 100 miles on last weekend (37 degree miles) with the Matris installed ....... my ONLY complaint is that I did not do it sooner. They were available all summer!

Just replaced the 2810's with some Hagon Nitro's this evening (arrived today Mike, that was quick!).
2810's did really well, but just not as good as the front end now.
Not being a fan of "piggybacks" (purely aesthetics) ........ I went traditional. Suites the bike.
Beefy units, with a good feel.
Raining, did not road test yet, but the "garage bounce" is very promising!:grin2:

As far as "bead sealing" goes ............ the "primer" is not a bad idea at all. It will protect against future rusting. Improving long term integrity.

If you have some "rust pits" from moisture being trapped between the rim and bead (as is the case with a number of automobile rims ............. there is a product called "bead sealer". Available by several manufactures. It is used in the auto industry to "fill" those small "pits", and improve sealing. Great stuff ........ works well.
If your rim is nice and smooth ............ not necessary, but still improves "sealing" with a "compromised" tire bead.
Do not use it on a new tire/new rim scenario .............. just not needed. Otherwise, great for "problem child's".
FYI
 
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