Triumph Rat Motorcycle Forums banner

Ethanol

3K views 27 replies 21 participants last post by  Brooksie 
#1 ·
OK, I hear that there may be a gasoline shortage and that the saving grace is ETHANOL. :) Some parts of the country are using a 10% mix already and there is something called "flexfuel" or something like that. Will Ethanol adversely affect the Bonnie either as a mixture or straight mixture?
 
#2 ·
Come on Anchorbend, you are in the Midwest, you should know this one.
:cool:


.Ethanol mixes have been around for years. All I use is 89 Octane Ethanol mixed gas....then again...I grew up in the great corn state of Iowa.....so I'm used to it.

Go Ethanol!!!!
Go Bio-diesel!!!

No more fuel from the Middle East!


By the way, Brazil will be "fuel independent" either this year or next year. They will no longer rely on crude oil from the middle east for fuel. Back in the 70's with the oil embargo's, they didn't have the clout of the U.S., so they started using their own resources. Now, almost all of their vehicles are flex-fueled, and they produce their own fuel from sugarcane. Yes, like we corn ethanol fuel available. They have cane ethanol.

Remember, the original diesel fuel was meant to run on vegetable and peanut oil. You can thank big oil companies for the mess we are in now.

Way to go Brazil!!
 
#5 ·
Here is another one on flex-fueled cars in Brazil.

Brazil - Flex-Fuel

I'm pretty passionate about this stuff. I live in a town-home now, but I'm actually thinking about moving way out into the sticks so that I can have room to brew my own bio-diesel and put solar panels on my house. (plus I want to brew my own beer!)

I don't want a 100p hybrid car. I want a 200hp diesel truck who's exhaust smells like french-fries and meets near zero emission standards. The drawback is that NOx levels go up.

Support our farmers!!!

Bio Diesel from veggie Oil (soy beans), and ethanol (corn)!!!



[ This message was edited by: Panthermark on 2006-05-10 12:02 ]
 
#9 ·
We need bio fule in the United Kingdom as it is $7.00 per Gallon :(

I'd like any Brits who've run their bike on bio fuel to drop me a line or indeed anybody else for that matter.

I understand you can make your own in a still?

Casper :)
 
#10 ·
I believe the flex-fuel vehicles burn what's called E85, or 85% ethanol. 15% gas. Can only be burned in a vehicle designed for it. The fuel injection computer/ sensors automatically adjusts for the less dense ethanol. Or something like that. It is available and cheaper around here in the Midwest, but your gas mileage isn't as good as regular gas. Also I hear that they have to use petroleum to manufacture ethanol! If that's true than what's the point. I think it's like the hybrids, all tree hugging feel good *****.
 
#11 ·
I'm praying for 18 continuous months of $5/gal gasoline. After that, we will see a level of alt fuel innovation none of us can even imagine today.

The result will be a shift from fossil fuels to alt fuels that will bring down the cost of all options such that we'll never pay $5/gal again, smog will be history and all those wanker dictators running tinpot petrocolonies will be wondering why nobody returns their calls anymore.

The only downside is that I'll have to buy a new bike because the old bonnie will still have an addition to 90% gasoline. I'm OK with that.

P
 
#12 ·
This is funny - thats actually what I do. I'm an environmental scientist for the Air Force (in air quality) and we've switched all of the diesel govt vehicles here on base to bio-diesel... And yeah, E85 is exactly what Loxpump said - 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. Usually you'll see 10% ethanol in gasoline for a couple of reasons, the environmental reason being that it can reduce CO emissions. Ethanol does burn a little hotter - causing a slight increase in NOx emissions (but dont worry, it wont damage our motors.) I actually had to do some study on this a few years ago, but I've fogotten all of the specifics... I was the math guy, screwing with algorithms and emission factors, and blah blah blah, so some of the nuts and bolts of it have escaped me.

You can't use the straight E85 fuel in our motors though, which is no big deal since its kinda hard to find anyways. E85 typically costs less than gasoline too, but oddly enough the mileage isnt as good as with gasoline - so they sorta even out. FlexFuel vehicles (actually, several ford trucks/SUV's are flexfuels, and most owners dont even know what it is) are becoming more common, but your car has to be set up for it. I think bio-fuels in general are such an easy short-term fix that they're going to become more and more common. And behind that I think we'll start to see the emergence of diesel/bio-diesel engines that are cleaner and more efficient than ever.

Its just such a massive infrastructure though (with so many hands in the cookie jar) that any real change is going to be like wrestling a greased pig. I'm optimistic though, since attitudes are changing and hopefully the money will follow that.
 
#13 ·
Speedy Pete has a good point, necessity is the mother of invention. We have the innovation and inventiveness to by pass the petrol stranglehold of the oil producers. Perhaps our Governments should set a goal with a reward for a successful production vehicle sold at a fair price that can run on alternative fuels, like ethanol, lpg and of course fuel cells. :)

OK guys lets get inventing!

Casper
 
#14 ·
I use E85 in my dragbikes, it has much higher octane and cooling effect than gasoline so I can run double the boost (30psi compared to 14psi).
To run E85 in your stock Bonnie you have to put in jets that will flow 30% more but other than that it shouldn't be a problem. But you must keep an eye on the oil, if you flood the engine or run rich the Ethanol will break down the oil in no time. I change the oil every 3-5 runs right now since the cylinders aren't broken in yet..
 
#15 ·
The problem is you just don't squeeze an ear of corn and get ethanol. It has to be produced and I believe they use petroleum to produce it, and it takes about as much energy to produce as you get out of it. What we need is hydrogen fuel cells. That a very clean burning fuel that produces only carbon dioxide and water vapor when burned. There are also people running diesels on used cooking oil. Yum
 
#16 ·
You can buy a conversion kit with heater, tank, and everything else needed to convert your diesel over to vegetable oil for $795 online. Oil is free at any fast food joint as they have to pay to have their traps pumped out on a regular basis. Filter it, pump it in the tank and go.
You could select your smell from week to week. French fries, fried chicken, egg rolls, fish, ummm, UMM!
 
#17 ·
On 2006-05-10 19:06, Loxpump wrote:
The problem is you just don't squeeze an ear of corn and get ethanol. It has to be produced and I believe they use petroleum to produce it, and it takes about as much energy to produce as you get out of it. What we need is hydrogen fuel cells. That a very clean burning fuel that produces only carbon dioxide and water vapor when burned. There are also people running diesels on used cooking oil. Yum
Hydrogen, at this point, is the joke of the century. When you look at total cost involved, Hydrogen is more pollution, more money, and trouble than gasoline. Hydrogen is real clean on the consumer end, so they sell it as what you see. What you don't see is the production of hydrogen that causes more pollution than gas.
 
#18 ·
I guess I must not be really too concerned about the whole gas thing anyway. Why else would I be riding a bike, burning gas just for fun. How can gas be too expensive when the oil companies raise the price and sell more than ever. Imagine if you own a company and when you raise the price of your product you still sell more of it! It's all political, how can you not say that the oil companies aren't a monopoly.
 
#19 ·
My 2 cents: The reason we have alcohol in our gasoline is purely for political reasons. The corn growing senators and representatives have the "horsepower" to make it happen. Environmentally, the production of ethanol is a disaster. The plants polute big-time. The damage to the land from one-crop mass production is not small either. Economically, it takes more energy to produce ethonol than we get from it. Straight gasoline burns cleaner than gasoline with 10% alcohol--this has been true for a number of years; however, the politicians cannot stop the farm wagon once started.

Politicians are NOT going to tell us what we need to hear--only what we want to hear. The last politician that tried this was Jimmy C. and look what happened to him. The "Greatest President" of our lifetime turned Detroit loose, and got us back into BIG gas guzzlers. He said everything was all right and we LOVED it. We felt good about ourselves again. :-D Politicians are not going to tell us what we need to hear--even if gasoline gets to $5/gallon. It's ALWAYS someone elses fault--it can't be my fault. :???:

The main basis for the economy in this country is the AUTOMOBILE--it has been since before 1920. As gasoline gets higher and higher, we will see a LOT of pressure on our economy, and this will have both short-term and long-term effects.

Larry
 
#20 ·
Gas prices are higher than ever and we're still buying SUV's, trucks and hummers like they are going out of style. I guess gas can't be too high yet for people to change. Detroit isn't going to make a car that it can't sell. Japan forced Detroit to start making small cars in the 70's when the oil embargo stuff hit. And those were some fine pieces of machinery. The Vega, the Pinto.
 
#22 ·
They just opened Norway's first E85 pump on the gas station just up the road here.

If all that is needed is to re jet this would be very, very interesting. Of course, I couldn't go anywhere far currently, as I would have to get home for a every refill...
:razz:
 
#23 ·
On 2006-05-11 03:59, Loxpump wrote:
Gas prices are higher than ever and we're still buying SUV's, trucks and hummers like they are going out of style. I guess gas can't be too high yet for people to change. Detroit isn't going to make a car that it can't sell. Japan forced Detroit to start making small cars in the 70's when the oil embargo stuff hit. And those were some fine pieces of machinery. The Vega, the Pinto.
It doesn't seem like price is forcing people to buy smaller cars, but gasoline availability would. Anyone recall the gas lines, and odd-day/even-day gas rationing after the first Arab Oil Embargo in the early 1970's? They were practically giving Olds 98s away. And that was the start of the Japanese Invasion.

As long as fuel is available when we pull up to the pump, we'll probably drive what we want. When it is necessary to stretch a tankful for several days or run out, that brings on the small cars.

And yes - Detroit wasn't even close to ready with their small cars in the 70s. I owned a Consumer Reports 'Car of the Year', a first year Vega. Whatta piece of trash! Engine blew at less than 40K miles.

GM wasn't doing anything for their customers at the time, so I ended up gutting the pressure system in the radiator cap (took pressure off cracked head which forced coolant into the cylinders), flushed it with nice cold water at a gas station a block from a VW dealer, and coasted the last half block into their lot. Traded said trash on a Super Beetle that ran for nearly 100,000 trouble free miles.
 
#24 ·
Put me down as another ethanol skeptic. While alcohol works OK as a fuel, producing it from corn requires about as much energy as can be extracted from it later. The most modern of distilling plants can do a bit better than that but not enough for ethanol to represent a glorious path to fossil fuel independance.

It's use in this country is mainly a sop to the farm lobby. And I'm not anti-farmer by any means. My parents grew up on farms, and I still have plenty of relatives in farm country. I'm just not crazy about the government touting something as a great boon to our country when it's really not.

Brazil uses a lot of ethanol, but they derive most of it from sugar cane, which has a higher energy content than corn. Their overall fuel requirements are a fraction of ours, too. I think ethanol, on the scale that we would need, will not be viable anytime soon, if ever. That won't stop the feds from pumping billions into it, however.

As far as how it works in a Bonnie? Not a problem at the 10% level that is most common in the U.S. I've run several hundred gallons of it through my '03 already. In the midwest corn states it's hard to get away from the stuff. Here in Minnesota, especially in the Twin Cities area, fuel that doesn't contain 10% corn squeezins in hard to find, and is dispensed from pumps that indicate that it's only for classic cars and motorcycles.
 
#25 ·
> OK, I hear that there may be a gasoline shortage and that the saving grace is ETHANOL.

Been living in one of those caves out at the edge of the river valley for a few years?

Somewhere around Number Five on the Big List O' Oil Company Excuses for the high prices this spring was... are you ready?... a shortage of ethanol as the industry began its conversion from MTBE to ethanol as an oxygenator.

As others have already noted, corn is an extremely inefficient source of fuel grade alcohol, yielding only about 20% more energy than is needed to produce it. Sugar cane delivers 8 times more energy than is required for the process. Way to go, Brazil.
 
#26 ·
Redbird and Diego are right on target. Because of government mandates, we have an ethanol shortage driving up the price at the pump. Everytime government interferes in the freemarket, the consumers get screwed.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top